Executive Profile with Jim Fitzpatrick, Powered by CBT News

The Zeigler Legacy: Building an Automotive Empire

• CBT News • Season 1 • Episode 11

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Aaron Zeigler has transformed his family's single dealership into a nationally recognized automotive powerhouse with 41 locations and 88 franchises across four states while fostering an exceptional workplace culture with remarkably low turnover.

• The Ferrari dealership in Lake Forest is one of the largest in the country, spanning 70,000 square feet with vehicles that can sell for over $3 million
• Zeigler's father started the company in the mid-70s after saving money from selling cars to purchase a small Ford dealership out of bankruptcy
• Building a world-class culture starts with their "Keys to Success" program that teaches new employees expectations and empowers them to make customers happy without manager approval
• Promoting from within and strong development programs are key strategies that have enabled the company's growth
• Technology enhances the car-buying process but relationships still drive sales - very few customers purchase completely online without human interaction
• Mobile service has been enormously successful with 14 vans at 100% capacity, while the Ferrari dealership will pick up and deliver cars within a 500-mile radius
• Zeigler started their own technician school graduating 40 techs annually to address the industry-wide technician shortage
• The automotive market remains strong with luxury brands showing particular resilience, and Zeigler predicts the second half of 2024 will outperform the first half


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Announcer:

This is the Executive Profile, exclusively on CBT News. Today's episode has been sponsored by the Presidio Group.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

On this edition of the Executive Profile, we spotlight a visionary leader who has transformed a family-owned dealership into a nationally recognized automotive powerhouse Aaron Zeigler, president and CEO of Zeigler Automotive Group. The company's story began in 1975 when Aaron's father, Harold Ziegler, opened a single dealership in Michigan. Since then, under Aaron's bold and strategic leadership, the Zeigler Automotive Group has expanded to include over 80 automotive franchises across four states, representing nearly every major manufacturer and consistently ranking among the top dealer groups in the United States. Yet beyond the impressive scale and growth, what truly defines Zeigler Automotive is its exceptional culture. In an industry often challenged by high turnover among its employees, Zeigler has built a workplace centered on teamwork, leadership, development and long-term opportunity. With a strong focus on promoting from within and empowering employees at every level, the company fosters an environment where people thrive and stay In this segment.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

We'll take a closer look at how Aaron Zeigler is honoring his family's legacy while boldly shaping the future of automotive retail through innovation, investment in people and the relentless drive to be the best in the business. Check out this edition of the Executive Profile featuring Aaron Zeigler. Aaron Zeigler, President and CEO of Zeigler Auto Group, thanks so much for allowing us to come into your incredible Ferrari dealership here in Illinois. Talk to us a little bit about the store and its background. Yeah.

Aaron Zeigler:

Jim, welcome to Lake Forest Ferrari. So this is one of the largest Ferrari stores in the country and one of the best run, and it's kind of legendary, and Rick Mancuso, the Mancuso family, started this 42 years ago. Wow, and it was just awesome to be able to have the opportunity to work with these guys and partner with them going forward, and it's been a lot of fun.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

That's great. That's great. You know, we're showing pictures right now of this incredible showroom and it just goes on forever. I think it's some 60,000 or 70,000 square feet.

Aaron Zeigler:

Yeah, a little over 70,000 square feet. Wow, it kind of looks like a museum. It does. There's some really, really cool cars in here.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Yeah, no question, you doesn't look like your typical dealership. I mean it almost we're in a corporate park and you've got some like very, very nice outside that's built with brick, not showroom glass. Talk to us about that.

Aaron Zeigler:

Well, Ferrari is a destination brand right. So, people come from all over the country to purchase here and we inherited the facility from Mancuso's and they did a wonderful job building this out and having a really, really cool look.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Sure sure, it's gorgeous, and the Mancuso family that was, I think the only store that they had was this location correct, yes, Rick Mancuso started it.

Aaron Zeigler:

He had his three kids working here and they all carried on with us. That was kind of part of the deal that they'd run a really good dealership and we thought we could partner with the two families and help take this thing to the next level and build upon what they've done.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

That's great. So let's talk a little bit about background and families in the auto industry. Your family dates back to the 70s in the auto industry. Talk to us for the dealers that are not as familiar with your background and you coming up through the industry as we are here at CBT News, tell us a little bit about your background and how you were brought into the business.

Aaron Zeigler:

So my dad, harold Zeigler, started the company back in the mid-70s. He originally started working at a car dealership sweeping floors, couldn't afford to go to college, started selling cars in the summer, made enough money to go to college and put his way through school and then saved up some money and bought a really small Ford dealership out of bankruptcy. Wow no kidding and turned it around and Ford was very happy. So they gave him a Lincoln Mercury Point in Kalamazoo and kind of kept building from there.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Sure.

Aaron Zeigler:

And then I grew up in the industry and kind of worked every position through service and parts and sales and then I became president a little over 20 years ago.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Wow, really at a very young age, I mean, you were 27, 28 years old.

Aaron Zeigler:

Yeah, correct. My dad was about that age when he bought his first dealership. Oh that's pretty cool.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

He was 26 when he bought his first dealership, so he knew you could handle it. Yeah, worked out all right. How many stores at that time, when you took over, did Zeigler Auto have?

Aaron Zeigler:

So there was. When I became president, there was six dealerships in Michigan and Indiana.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Okay, six, six and today you have 41 locations. 41 locations, 88 franchises Wow, that is incredible. That's a major growth taking place there, right? Yeah, it's been a lot of fun and we've got a great group of people that we work with and it's really been them that's been the driving force of the growth, and I would imagine that your dad is on your cell phone speed dial and anything you guys talk about the business.

Aaron Zeigler:

Yeah, we talk on a daily basis. We've got a wonderful relationship. He's a ton of fun to talk to. He's a wealth of knowledge, oh sure, still loves the business, even though he gets to do a lot of fun stuff outside the business as well. But him and I talk almost every day. We always have something in common. It's great.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Of course of dad. We always have something in common. It's great, of course. Of course, tell us a little bit about um taking over, because there's a lot of people that are watching right now. That are both dealers that have got their kids in the business and there's kids that are watching them where their parents brought them into the business. Talk to us about that transition and taking over your parents operation yeah, it was.

Aaron Zeigler:

It was a really smooth transition. So when I went to school I had no inclination of coming in and taking over and didn't know what I wanted to do. But I graduated high school on a Friday, I sold my first car on a Monday and just it was an adrenaline rush.

Aaron Zeigler:

I knew that's what I wanted to do the rest of my life. Yeah, sold all the way through college and then, after I got out of college, I was working at a Ford store in Plainwell, went to the NADA Academy, which was phenomenal for my career. You get about 10 years worth of information in one year. They do a fantastic job. Yes, they do, and I took over a dealership as a general manager when I was 26. And then, when I was 28, my dad brought me back as president of the organization and he was still working full time for quite a while. We just had this kind of really slow kind of phase in for me and slow phase out for him, so nobody ever realized there was this transition. It happened over years and years and years out there and he's still chairman of the company and still involved in the business. But it was a pretty smooth transition.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

That's great, and you've put together so many different brands. Talk to us about what you look for when you acquire a group or a store.

Aaron Zeigler:

So single most important thing is location. Okay, and we're looking for locations that are growing or that are mature and you get a lot of population around them.

Aaron Zeigler:

And we're kind of looking like hey, what is this market going to do over the next 20, 25 years? Because when you're building a building, it's a long-term commitment, so we want to have something that's growing or an area that's really nice out there. And then we're looking for the right franchises in the right locations. We're looking for when you get into the domestics, you're looking for bigger volume locations. When you get into something like the Ferrari and the Exotics, obviously you're looking for your higher-end household income in an area.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Yeah, for sure, for sure. With regard to the stores that you've put together, you've got some Stellantis stores in there, You've got some Nissan stores in there. Let's start with Stellantis. How do you feel about the company today? There's many dealers out there over the last four or five years very concerned about Stellanus and its future. However, they've put some new leadership in. We talked about that before we were recording today, but how do you feel about it as you sit here?

Aaron Zeigler:

today. We had a great run with Stellanus for 20 years. It's an unbelievable brand. Jeep is iconic. They lost their way a couple of years ago and they had the wrong CEO and I was very critical of them a year ago yeah and I said you got to get rid of your CEO, which they did.

Aaron Zeigler:

they kind of probably saw the same things that I did and they're they're making all the right moves, yeah, right now, okay, bringing back Tim Canunis to run the the Americas, and they're they're kind of recreating what they had from a success standpoint. They've got the right incentives out there now, kind of the right inventory levels. So I think they're going in a great direction and I'm obviously bullish on them because I bought a Jeep store a month ago in Kalamazoo. So I believe in the direction that they're going and I like what I see right now. It'll take a little bit of time, but each month keeps getting a little bit better with them.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Would you be looking to acquire more Stellantis stores today?

Aaron Zeigler:

Yeah, I think it's a great time to buy them, because prices are probably a little bit down on those right now because of the profitability, but then you can grow with that going forward, and that's really what I did back in 08,. 09 is kind of bought at the bottom and then they became very valuable over time.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Yeah, yeah, of course, and, as you said, those are iconic brands that are going to do well regardless, and with that new leadership in place, it's going to be a phenomenal franchise to own right.

Aaron Zeigler:

Yeah, I agree. I definitely agree with where they're going in the long-term future.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

So let's bring up the other problem child that's out there right now, which is Nissan. A lot of dealers are concerned, that are Nissan stores that have Nissan stores, I should say, that are very concerned about that brand. They've made some changes, they're trying to do some things. They brought in some people from Toyota that run the operation as well. What's your feeling about Nissan today?

Aaron Zeigler:

You know, similar to Stellantis. They kind of got off base, you know, really over maybe like the last five years or so, and we've got a pretty good size Nissan store down in Orland Park, to southwest of Chicago. It does very well, we do. You know, between 150 and 200 new and used out of there a month, nice. And so we've done pretty well with Nissan. It's been pretty consistent and I think they're also going in the right direction as well.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Sure, sure. When you look for a store, how much does geography play into it? Because a number of your stores are in Illinois, right, and one or two other states.

Aaron Zeigler:

Yeah, so we're in Michigan, Indiana, Illinois and Wisconsin. Okay, so those four states.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

And when you look for a store, are you looking to stay in those areas.

Aaron Zeigler:

So we always look to grow in that, in those areas. So we always look to grow in markets that we're already in, because you get a lot of synergies by doing that and it also creates opportunities for our internal employees. And that's what really gets me excited and that's why I really like to be able to grow and add locations is to create opportunities internally for our employees, so it's a lot easier to grow internally. You know, if we went down to like Florida, for example which we would do we'd have to buy a group of dealerships down there to be relevant in the market. To get the synergies, you need to be profitable and get a return on these.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

And is that a possibility in the future that we might see coming out of Zeigler? Yeah, absolutely, okay. Okay, if it's the right deal. Huh, correct, yeah, and you look at both mass market vehicles as well as, obviously, luxury stores. Do you have a preference between?

Aaron Zeigler:

the two. You know, it's really about the opportunity that we're looking for and what we think we can do with the market. And you always look at what somebody's somebody's doing right now and then you kind of put together your pro forma and think what you can do on it. And then you usually overpay them a little bit. But if you do what you think you can do, then you then you get a decent return, sure out there is it when you take over a group?

Jim Fitzpatrick:

do you leave, as as you did here? Do you leave that management in place for the most part and then bring them into your culture, or do you give the the management of that store to one of your current employees and your current staff?

Aaron Zeigler:

So normally we bring in our own person at the top just to be able to build the culture. Okay, but we've had dealerships like. We did an acquisition a few years ago in Wisconsin. We took 330 employees between four stores. We took every single one of them, put one of our VPs over top of it and that's the way that we can build the culture. Ferrari was a little bit different, because it's one of the best run stores in the country. Yeah, yeah, Ferrari's told us that, and the Mancuso family are really legendary in the Ferrari circle. So in this particular case I said I would only buy it if they stay in on the deal and I knew the family pretty well and really wanted them to and knew that we would mesh well.

Aaron Zeigler:

We've got a lot of common interests. It was kind of two families coming together on this one. It's been a lot of fun. The Mancusos are wonderful people. That's great. Customers absolutely love them. Every time I run into a customer they say don't screw this up, don't change anything.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

You love the service. I said, all right, yeah, exactly Right, right Today in order to get a Ferrari. You don't just walk in and buy a Ferrari, right? You kind of?

Aaron Zeigler:

earn your spot. Yes and no, it depends upon kind of which model you're looking at, but most models are sold two to three years out and if you get into the really desirable models, especially the supercars, you have to kind of earn your way in and Ferrari picks who's going to be able to purchase those and they reward their best customers and if you think about it it kind of makes a lot of sense from that standpoint. So they actually allocate those cars to the customer, not the dealer.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

And they definitely don't want you selling those cars if you buy one.

Aaron Zeigler:

No, they want the customers that aren't going to just buy it and turn it to make money on it. They want the car enthusiast that's going to keep it, that's going to drive it, that's going to have it in their collection for a long time.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Sure, yeah, and some of these cars. What's the highest price Ferrari you've got on the showroom right?

Aaron Zeigler:

Now we had a 1992 Ferrari F40 that we just sold for a little over $3 million $3 million.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Wow. Your data list of customers must look like a who's who in American business and sports right.

Aaron Zeigler:

Yes, you would know a lot of the names, no question about it.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Not that we're going to we're not going to talk about the names.

Aaron Zeigler:

It is a who's who in the business and sports world.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

That's right. That's right. How are your other luxury brands doing in light of everything that we see in the economy taking place today?

Aaron Zeigler:

I think luxury is the strongest part of the segment right now. You look at what we're doing with BMW and Mercedes and Land Rover and we kind of run the gamut with the luxury brands and they're a little bit more with inflation. They're a little bit more with inflation, a little bit more inflation proof probably that customer than you would have at an entry level. So the luxury brands are really really solid right now really strong.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Yeah, does it surprise you that, with all that the country is going through right now, with the talk of tariffs and high interest rates and things like that, that the stock market is still cranking along and these people are still going out and buying cars and luxury cars, I should say?

Aaron Zeigler:

Yeah, I think you can't get too caught up in the rhetoric out there, because negative news usually sells, so there's a lot of negative information out there there is.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

That's for sure.

Aaron Zeigler:

But you look at it and interest rates are higher than what they've been the last 10, 15 years. They're starting to come down but historically it's about an average interest rate or probably a little bit below an average interest rate, but we still think they're going to start to go down going forward. I think people are pretty bullish on the economy from that standpoint. On rates, tariffs, I think that'll all kind of work itself out. I get it. It's got to be fair both ways. If somebody's charging us a tariff, we have to charge them the same tariff back.

Aaron Zeigler:

We can't pay a higher tariff than what they are, so I think it'll put us in a much better position going forward, and as the CEO of a company that's got 88 franchises.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Are you ready to take that leap with the president to say, hey, do what you got to do and we'll work?

Aaron Zeigler:

this thing out. Yeah, I think whatever is best for the overall country and the economy will ultimately be best for the auto industry in the long run. There might be a little short-term pain there, but long-term, you know, we'll get through what we always do and I think it'll be best for the country.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Sure sure, when you talked a little bit about putting your vice presidents in place, when you do keep the team in place to maintain that culture. Talk to us a little bit about the culture at Zeigler Auto Group, because I know that you have been uh, you know, at the top of a lot of dealers minds, because you've done such a great job in the area of building a great team and having a great culture, so much so that you don't have the same turnover that other dealer groups have or other dealerships have. So, what, what goes into that? What, what, what do you need to focus on in order to win in that category?

Aaron Zeigler:

well, the only way you can grow is to have stable employment, otherwise you can't grow, right? So, um, I think culture is an often used buzzword out there and I think a lot of people don't understand it and we've really immersed ourselves into culture and it's hard to explain a culture, but you know you can feel it, that's right. You can feel the energy when you walk into a dealership. But people are smiling and they're happy and they're dressed properly. So I always say look, if you wake up in the morning and you can't wait to get to work and you love the people you work with, that's a world class culture, right, and that's what we want to build in every one of our dealerships.

Aaron Zeigler:

And I said, you know it starts with our development program. So day one when somebody comes to work for us, we buy a new dealership. We have what's called keys to success. Sounds a lot better than new, higher orientation program, but it teaches our people what our expectations are and how we do things. And it's not. You know bathrooms down there on the left. Sure, let me show you where the bathroom is. It's those little things that we teach people to do to give our customers that world-class customer experience. And then we also empower people to do anything to make a customer happy. You don't have to go to a manager or a general manager to do that. If it's the right thing to do, just do it and we're going to back you on that. And the worst case scenario we spend a little bit too much on a customer, we make them a little too happy and those are coaching moments. But when you think about culture, your employees have to be happy to have happy customers. If you don't have that, it doesn't work.

Aaron Zeigler:

That's right then, um, if employees are well compensated and, um, the sky's the limit with what you can make, for us it's based on on performance. If your performance is exceptional, you're going to get paid more than anybody else in the the industry. Okay, um, we give people room for advancement and then we've got a really strong development program that teaches them to be able to move up in the company, and I think that's been a lot of our success. So I think if you get the right people going in, you develop them, you pay them very well and they're excited to come to work. That creates that world-class culture and that's how we've been able to really grow the organization.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Sure sure. And in growing the organization you mentioned, you're at 88 franchises today. How many is enough? If we're sitting here 10 years from now, is it 188? Is it still 88? And you're running a great operation? Or when do you just go? I think we have enough.

Aaron Zeigler:

I get asked that question a lot. The reality is it's a lot easier to run 88 franchises than it was when I started 30 years ago, Because you have a basis of people all moving in the same direction and you got a lot of horsepower to be able to do that. But there's no number out there that I'm looking for. I think that's dangerous, I think that's ego driven and we're just looking. We just take each individual opportunity and if it makes sense for us and it makes sense for the company and it makes sense for our employees, then we'll do it. But we're not dying to go buy anything tomorrow. But if something came up tomorrow and it was the right deal, we'd certainly do it.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Okay. So for dealers that are watching, if you're looking to sell your group, you may be a buyer, yeah we'd be happy to talk to them.

Aaron Zeigler:

And we get a lot of calls and I think the reason why we do that is we always do what we say we're going to do. If we shake hands on what a deal is going to be, it's going to go down on paper exactly that same way, and that's not always the case in the industry. I always say, hey, here's a list of dealers I've bought from. Call the last 10 guys and tell them how it went.

Aaron Zeigler:

Yeah, that's strong, and that's one of the ways that we get deals. We get a lot of deals from manufacturers now a lot of first-rate refusals.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Manufacturers have gotten very, very aggressive on first-rate refusal, especially on the import side of things. We pick up a lot of deals on first rate refusal. That's great, that's fantastic. So to your point, you know it is. In a lot of cases I've spoken to other people, your colleagues in the industry, that have got 30, 40, 50 dealerships, and they have pretty much said the same thing that once you get that leadership in place and that management in place, picking up the additional stores is not as hard as maybe running just a few earlier on right yeah, if you go from one store to two, that's doubling the size of you know, if we go from 41 to 45, it's a 10%.

Aaron Zeigler:

You know it increase out there. So it's a lot easier to do that and I think is what you're seeing is groups are buying out other groups now as the industry gets a little bit more consolidated, right.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

right if the phone call came in from a big group that said hey, you know, you guys do an incredible job. We'll give you, you know, some of these numbers that people are paying for these well-run groups, you know, obviously, in the billions of dollars, is that something that you'd consider or look at?

Aaron Zeigler:

Yeah, no, I wouldn't consider it. I'd go home and I'd look at a bank account and I'd be miserable. Because I love what I do, I love the people, I love our employees, I love going to the event. It's my lifestyle.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Yeah, that's great.

Aaron Zeigler:

And I have no interest in selling and never planned on selling.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

And you're young enough to have a lot of runway ahead of you.

Aaron Zeigler:

Exactly.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

And we've got a lot of stuff we still want to accomplish out there, so there's no number that we'd ever sell for.

Aaron Zeigler:

That's cool, and you mentioned to me before we got recording that now your son is in the business, right, so talk to us about that. That's pretty exciting. Yeah, all four of my kids have worked in the business. He's the first one that's graduated college. The other ones are still going through college and high school, sure, but all of them have worked in different positions in the dealership, based on what they like, and he started out washing cars and is a porter and worked his way up and then started selling motorsports and then then I sold cars last few years and he's really enjoyed it. So when he graduated college he knew exactly what he wanted to do, and that's great. He's working at our Mercedes store in Chicago.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Fantastic. Do you see him on a on a similar path that you were on?

Aaron Zeigler:

Yeah, it's completely up to him and he's got to prove himself out there. I'm probably harder on my kids than I am on any other employee, but so far all my kids or daughter take over With all that's happening right now in the area of technology and I'm referring to AI, I mean.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

It's playing such a huge role, not just in corporate America and business and everything that we do, but certainly in the automotive industry. Talk to us about the impact that AI will have in our industry. Moving forward, you know it's interesting.

Aaron Zeigler:

In my entire career I've heard of the death of the car dealer. The internet's coming out. You'll never make money on new cars anymore, but what happens is this technology enhances the experience, but ultimately it's relationships that sell products and it's a relationship-based business. So we use a lot of technology, we're using AI and we're embracing it. You have to continuously reinvent yourself to stay relevant out there, and we'll continue to do that, but ultimately it's not going to take over for the people in the dealership. On less headcount, do you think it can?

Jim Fitzpatrick:

get to that point where you say, hey, maybe we don't need to spend as much on the human capital as we did in the past because of the technologies.

Aaron Zeigler:

Maybe a little bit, but I don't think it's going to have a big impact because it's still people that make the difference. If technology could run these things, everybody would be doing the same right. Everybody would be successful out there and you see a wide range of dealerships in different levels of success. So I think it's embracing that technology, figuring out a way to use it, but it's still people that have to manage that technology and run with it. But it's definitely made our lives easier. The internet has made the buying cycle much shorter. When somebody comes in, because they have a lot more information right that they used to have to get from the dealer, now they get that online, just like I I would do if I'm I'm going to buy something sure uh out there.

Aaron Zeigler:

So technology definitely makes the world easier. It makes the car business easier. Um, it makes you more productive. You get a lot more data when you're looking at. You know what what used cars you want to buy and what you want to sell and what you want to hold.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Speaking about that, the technology you and I spoke a lot during COVID and after COVID hit and then after COVID kind of went away, and we talked about digital retailing and people buying a car online, and you guys were all geared up for that. Where does that stand today with consumers and with Ziegler Auto Group? Are people buying cars online the way that we thought they might be, and is that the future of the industry?

Aaron Zeigler:

So we will sell a car any way the customer wants to. So if they want to buy a car 100% online and never talk to somebody, we can do that. Very few people want to do that because, ultimately, you always have some questions because it's a big purchase one and there's a lot of moving pieces to it and it's complex and you want to make sure you get all your questions answered and a computer can't answer every single question out there. So it's a very small percentage. They do it a hundred percent online, okay.

Aaron Zeigler:

Now, we do do a lot of sales out of state, especially when you get into the higher ends of the exotics, almost like a nationwide deal. So we will, and we always tell a customer look, if you're buying a car online, we're going to send it to you. If it's not exactly what we said, to send it back, right, and we never get cars sent back because we want to be completely open, completely transparent, okay, uh, with customers. But we do do a lot of that where they don't actually come to the dealership, okay, anymore but, if somebody wants to do the traditional process where they come to the dealership and whatnot.

Aaron Zeigler:

But very few people come to the dealership and have not made a contact um in advance with the the dealership.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Usually it's an appointment so, okay, okay, and in terms of the, uh, the the service of these vehicles, you were talking about, um taking vehicles out to, or selling cars online, or what? Have you shipping them out? Um mobile services become very, very popular? Uh, are you doing that at your stores and I know ford jumped into that in a very big way but where does that stand?

Aaron Zeigler:

we are and we've had a tremendous amount of success with it. So we bought a Mercedes store a month after COVID hit, actually here in Chicago, which was a little scary but ended up being okay and they were not doing mobile service and today we have 14 mobile service vans at 100% capacity. So we started with one, got it to full capacity, added a second one and then a third one and just kind of kept going out there and we've really gone coast to coast with our mobile service vans and customers absolutely love it.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

It's incredible, incredible. So you feel that's the future of the business.

Aaron Zeigler:

with regard to fixed ops, yeah, so I don't think there's one catch all for anything, but there's a certain segment of the market that is absolutely going to love that. If I was a customer, I would love that. There's other customers that want to bring their vehicles in With Ferrari, for example, lake Forest. If a customer is within a 500-mile radius of the dealership, they pick up and drop off for free 500 miles.

Aaron Zeigler:

Yeah so 500 miles actually becomes 2,000 if you go out and back and then out and back again. But it's one of the ways that they've really built their service department. Everything that they've really built their service department, everything is based on convenience for the customer and ease of business use. Sure, sure. So it was really kind of a brilliant thing on their part. I don't think anybody else out there is doing that. They were the first ones. Oh my gosh.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

And really helped. Are you in some cases going into other dealers' territory to get that car?

Aaron Zeigler:

It's usually our customer though. So you get to realize that customers are kind of spread out around the country and there's two Ferrari dealers in Chicago, so you're always going to be kind of in the same market.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

In some respects, it's pretty impressive though. Wow, I mean, you're going out that far, and so mobile service is doing well, then you feel good about it.

Aaron Zeigler:

Mobile's doing great, yes, and as customers are getting more comfortable with that, then we flipped it over. Like you said, Ford's got a really strong program with that.

Aaron Zeigler:

But you have to hire a technician specifically for that. If somebody's gonna be on the road right a lot or not coming home at night, if they're going a long ways, you know, usually that's not somebody that's, you know, married and got a bunch of kids. A lot of times it's somebody younger coming out of school. The technician deficiency out there. There's a lot more technicians that are retiring that are coming into the business. That's because you can't work on a car with your dad in the driveway anymore. It's kind of unfortunate. There's too much technology in these things. So a few years ago we started our own tech school. We graduate 40 techs a year that go into our dealerships. That's fantastic and we've had a tremendous amount of success with that, because one, we don't charge the kids for it. We actually buy them tools when they come out, so they go to school. There's some great tech schools out there, but it's $80,000, $90,000 for a year.

Aaron Zeigler:

Then you've got to go buy your tools, so you're $100,000 in debt to start with. With our tech program, there's no cost to it Wow, so it's been very successful. You're to it, so it's been very successful. You've grown your own. Yes, we've got one school in Michigan and one in Illinois full-time instructors Wow, and it's been great. And our current techs love it too, because they help to mentor the young kids.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

That's fantastic. And those kids are working on EVs, which is my next topic. As we all know, the EV revolution was here and then it was gone and the OEMs got in. The government got in and said, hey, we're going to be all EVs by 2035. And we all laughed at that and said there's no way, not at this pace, will the industry go to that. You know, by that amount of time. However, ev sales are up, as you know, and of course, hybrids are helping to make that leap to an all EV environment, are helping to make that leap to an all EV environment. And then, of course, with the president taking back the CARB rules and saying, hey, we're not going to adhere to this anymore. And now, with the new bill, there's not going to be that $7,500 available to them. So I know I just put on a lot there, but talk to me about the EVs today and the market that's out there and the impact that those things will have.

Aaron Zeigler:

I think there's certainly a market out there for EVs today and the market that's out there and the impact that those things will have. I think there's certainly a market out there for EVs, and in certain applications it works wonderful, but it is not for everybody and I don't think the government should ever force what you have to buy. I think there should be options you should have gas engines, you should have hybrids, you should have EVs because then, as a consumer, you can pick which one. Ultimately, though, ultimately though, whatever you build has got to be profitable. It's got to be profitable for the manufacturers, it's got to be profitable for the government. It's got to be profitable for the dealers. That's kind of been the tough piece of the EVs. Even as they've been subsidized at the $7,500, they're still not profitable out there, but they are growing in popularity as people get a little bit more comfortable with them. Where we've really seen an explosion is in the hybrids Customers where we've really seen an explosion is in the hybrids. Okay, um, customers are just absolutely loving the hybrid technology.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

I see you've got a ferrari back here that's plugged in yeah, a number of ferraris uh are hybrids, it's kind of funny to see.

Aaron Zeigler:

But yeah, but it's cool because they actually do it to boost their uh the power uh on them, and they just plug into a regular outlet. It's really easy. So they've got a cool setup from that standpoint with their EVs. And I think there's going to be other technologies that come out Maybe it's hydrogen or something else, but that's just an evolution out there that we see. But consumers want choices and as a dealer group we're going to give them those choices and not force anything. And any time you try to force something, it's putting a round cylinder into a square peg just doesn't work out there. You've got to let the market decide what percentage of that EV is going to be going forward.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Right In terms of the $7,500 going away. What kind of an impact do you think that will have? I would imagine a pretty good impact in the next couple of months. While people say, if I'm going to buy an EV, I might as well do it now. You might clear out your shelves of EVs.

Aaron Zeigler:

Yeah, we think that we'll have a little boost here the next couple of months, so it'll probably pull some sales ahead, which makes sense out there. Where we've had the most success on EVs is in the luxury market because that customer is maybe not quite as price sensitive as other consumers, so that customer can just get what they want. So it probably doesn't affect the luxury market as much as it does the mass producers out there on the $7,500.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Okay, okay, and then on used cars, they're going to be doing away with the $4,000 on the used cars, correct? I'm assuming you're sitting with some used cars, used EVs?

Aaron Zeigler:

Yeah, we do, and we've had some success with used EVs.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

But we do see those depreciating substantially more than the ice-powered vehicles. Okay, yeah, it's. It's kind of hard I've spoken to a number of dealers when a tesla rolls in. How do you put a number on a tesla right now?

Aaron Zeigler:

right, it's the big question yeah, and one of the challenges you know, tesla can turn off certain features on there. So if all of a sudden somebody wants, you know, their super cruise turned back on, or autopilot, whatever they call it, you know, all of a sudden it's eight thousand dollars, right and it's it's um, yeah, I don't. I don't buy into that. If it's already there. They shouldn't be be getting involved in used car sales. So there's been some frustration on customers. Parts uh, uh out there, but they're certainly depreciating. But you know, as they come down in value, that maybe brings more people into the market.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Uh, as well. Yeah, that's true. However, ICE engines are here. I think they've got a very long runway ahead of them, right?

Aaron Zeigler:

Yeah, if you think about this, there's 300 million cars on the road roughly in the United States we sell 15 million new cars. So say 50%, which we're not even close to 50%, but that'd be 7.5 million.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

We divide that into 300 million cars, it's a lot of runway left with ice engines and I don't see them going away anytime soon. Yeah, talk to me about your philanthropic giving back to the community. I mean, you guys do it in a very big way and I know it means a lot to you. Talk to us about that. The Drive for Life Foundation, the Ziegler Family, scholars um, that that's. I mean you step up.

Aaron Zeigler:

yeah that was something my dad taught me at a young age is it's not enough just to be successful in this world. You got to make the world a better place. Yeah, and we're very fortunate, and we got to give back to people that are less fortunate, so it's something we're really, really passionate about. So, um, he uh started the drive for life event gosh 45 years ago. First year it raised like $3,000, and then it was $10,000. Then it went to $100,000, and now it raises over $1 million every year. That's fantastic.

Aaron Zeigler:

We've added a couple more events to that, but we'll raise $1 million in one night. We're doing it coming up here in September. Wow, it's a lot of fun and a lot of our employees really get behind it. A lot of fun and a lot of our employees really get behind it. A lot of our vendors really get behind supporting that. And then we also do a Ride for Life now, which is a snowmobile ride from one end of the Upper Peninsula to the other end in one day. No, kidding.

Aaron Zeigler:

So I participated in that last year. It was a lot of fun and that raised some good money too. And then we do a lot of matching with the foundation, so we put a lot of money behind it as well, but it's a lot of fun to do it. It's very rewarding to be able to do that, and if we look at something and say it's good for the community and we want to be a part of it. We want to do it.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

And I know you're not doing it for this reason. The community responds right to those companies that are giving back to their community. They see that and I know you don't do it for that reason, but it's just a good thing to do, right? It's the right thing to do.

Aaron Zeigler:

Yeah, it's part of your brand, it's part of your culture, part of your DNA. We try not to publicize much that we do out there. We really talk about it a lot more internally with our employees and you know, teaching them to give back and volunteer, and it's more than just money, it's also the volunteer piece of it, at a time that you put behind things as well, to make sure communities better places, sure and associates of your company today what you know.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

They've done many, many polls at colleges and they've said you know what? What are you looking for in an employer? And always you know to go with an employer that has a cause, that is giving back to their community and that's important to employees today, right, To be part of an organization like that.

Aaron Zeigler:

Yeah, I always tell young people coming out of school find something that you love to do and find the right company that shares your values. And we put our values out there. It's not just in some book that you got to dust off, it's in every one of our training centers. Our values are up on the wall of those, so it's forefront of our employees at all times what we want to accomplish, how we want to conduct ourselves out there and what we want to do for the communities. Sure sure?

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Will you hire managers for your stores outside of your organization, or is everybody homegrown?

Aaron Zeigler:

So occasionally we do hire from the outside. We like to homegrown. If there's two people that are about equal, we always go with a person internally and the vast majority of our promotions come from internal, from the organization. But occasionally if we find somebody that would be a great fit for our organization, we do bring them in from the outside.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Right, right, okay, that means a lot to employees that they see that path right, that they can end up running stores.

Aaron Zeigler:

Yeah, we always say we're not a team, we're really a family and I think a family is a stronger bond than what a team is out there. And even though we've grown a lot, I always want to have that family feel to the organization.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

I don't want it to be a corporate type, feel to it Sure, running a multi-billion dollar company in a fast changing industry. What are some of the lessons learned in a position like yours over the last 10 years, or maybe since you took over from your dad? What are some of the things that have jumped out? That said man, this made me a different manager, or a different leader.

Aaron Zeigler:

You know, you've got to consistently reinvent yourself to stay relevant in the market. But also, just because the herd's going one way, you may want to go the other way. So in 2008, when the financial crisis hit, nobody wanted to buy dealerships. Everybody was selling dealerships and I said you know, it's a good time to buy right now. And we bought dealerships for pennies on the dollar, and our organization would never be the size it was today, because back then we couldn't afford the full price, but when they were discounted, we could. And then you got a really good return off of it. Same thing with covid. So when, when covid hit, everybody was scared to death. They're scared about their jobs, they're scared about their paycheck. Um, you don't really have like in michigan. We got shut down. We could not sell cars in michigan. Wow well, you still have your mortgage, you still got your taxes, you still got all your expenses. So the first thing that we did is said hey, we came out and communicated very, very well with the employees employees and said don't worry about it, I got you, we're going to protect your pay plans, we're going to continue to pay you, we're going to give you free health insurance the next couple of months. We did a whole bunch of different things for our employees to kind of keep them going, and the second we opened back up. It takes you a little while to get going. We brought everybody back where a lot of companies didn't do that yeah, because I go. You know the full team is going to be way better than competing against a half a team. Right, and that really helped us to to grow as well. And you know we did.

Aaron Zeigler:

Um, we figured out early on during covid that you couldn't sell cars, but these manufacturers were going to take a lot longer to gear back up, so there was going to be a deficiency in new cars. So while we were shut down, we went out and bought a couple thousand new cars out there and you were very bullish. Yeah, very damn times, right. And well, we realized that, like it's got, everything's got to come to an end. Every recession has to come to an end. Covid has to come to an end and, um, I probably didn't think it was going to be as good as what it was coming out of that, but, um, it really gave us a nice, nice boost. Yeah, you can't. You can't run a business scared. A lot of people tend to run scared. We we look at what could go right, not what could go wrong that's right.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

That's right. As you sit here today, in 2025, and we're in the middle of 2025, what's your five-year plan for the company? What does that look like, is it? I know you're not chasing a number per se, but where is that if somebody would just say we're sitting here in 2030, what, what, what does the company look like?

Aaron Zeigler:

you know we're looking for constant improvement always in the organization will continue to grow where it makes sense. When they're with, the right opportunities come up, and usually we have the person before we have the opportunity. So we've kind of created our own NADA school in-house. We call it our performance group. That's great. I run it hands-on. It gets me to know, it's know. We usually get about 10 or 12 individuals in there. It gets me to know them intimately well and we also have conversations with people about their careers. What do you want to do? Some person maybe I want to run one dealership. Somebody else says I want to run 10. And they have to certainly accomplish certain things to be able to do that. But that helps us to be able to grow out there. So I think we're going to just stay the course and continue to grow where it makes sense. We're going to continue to develop our people and then really focus on having that world-class culture.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Sure, some of your colleagues in the industry that have got large groups have made these general managers partners in their deal and some of them have said hey, if you put together enough money and you can do a buy-in, we'll give you a piece of the dealership. Do you run that type of an operation, or are they all wholly owned by Ziegler?

Aaron Zeigler:

So they're all wholly owned by Ziegler and I've seen a lot of those deals and almost all of them fail. Almost all of them fail. For the general managers. I do have some personal experience on that. So I always tell guys if you don't have 51%, it doesn't matter. It's almost kind of a fake facade.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Very good point.

Aaron Zeigler:

You know there's certain people that certainly chase the title and I get that and chase the ownership thing.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Some of my friends that were supposedly dealers with a name on the sign got fired. Correct?

Aaron Zeigler:

yes, there's nothing that can prevent that from happening, and if you put money in or you're borrowing money to do that, then you can't get the money back out. So, it seems like about close to 100% of partnerships don't work out eventually and I know there's a few guys that have been successful out there doing it.

Aaron Zeigler:

but a lot more have been unsuccessful. But we treat our guys like partners. We pay them like partners but they have a steady stream of income. They never need to write a check to us for anything and our guys really like that consistent cash flow and being treated like a partner. I let the general managers really run the dealerships. They can make any decision really that they want.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Nothing is centralized where Ziggler corporate runs the stores.

Aaron Zeigler:

No. So we always say that we run a fairly flat organization. But our auto group, which is a parent company, is just there to support the stores. So if a GM doesn't need somebody to come in, we don't have somebody come in. But we have experts, whether it be on F&I or fixed ops or variable ops. So when they have questions or they want to bring people in, they can call them in. But it's always being invited into a store. So we're not going to go and tell somebody how to run a store right. Our guys are professionals, they know how to do that.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

We're gonna you know, we're gonna give them as much rope as they need yeah to to be successful yeah, you're looking for good CSI, good ESI and a strong bottom line, and if they're doing that, then get out of their way exactly.

Aaron Zeigler:

You know we're gonna and we're gonna continuously build new, new facilities and upgrade, and the manufacturers really like that, because that's a part of your brand. Yeah, as well as gorgeous as this facility is, we're gonna, we're gonna end up doing some things to this facility here in the next year or two.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Wow, I don't know what you could do to this facility to make it better, but I come back when it's done and uh and you'll be able to see.

Aaron Zeigler:

Will it be in the same location? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah okay, we love the location, we love the facility. Yeah, we're just going to do some enhancements, okay, uh it's very, very nice as it sits today.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Uh, we came by last night and there were no ferraris outside at all, and then we drove in today and now you've got a lot full outside. So, although we put them inside every night, every night, correct? Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, to keep any problems that might exist away, right?

Aaron Zeigler:

Yeah, we've been pretty fortunate to not have many issues.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Where have you shipped a car? What's the furthest distance? You've shipped a Ferrari to a client.

Aaron Zeigler:

I mean pick a state in the United States Florida, california.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Are you allowed to?

Aaron Zeigler:

ship them overseas. We don't ship out of the country, so we keep everything in the US. Some of our other brands, like Jeep. We sell a lot of Jeeps in Alaska. There's a shortage of Jeeps up there and people fly into Chicago, buy a Jeep from us and drive it back to Alaska.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Maybe that's the next location for a Ziegler store, for a Ziegler salami store.

Aaron Zeigler:

I don't know if I can handle the 24 hours of no sunlight in the winter.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

That I don't know if I can handle the 24 hours of no sunlight in the winter. That's right, that's right. So that's a great segue to my next question. What does? Aaron Ziegler and his family do for fun. Do you play golf? Are you a boater? I mean, you're working all the time. You've got a huge responsibility. What?

Aaron Zeigler:

do you do to relax? Yeah, kind of all of the above. I love racing cars Okay, I love racing cars Okay. So I'm at the track a lot on the weekends Okay, we're the primary sponsor of the number 77 NASCAR with Carson Hosavard, so I attend a lot of the NASCAR races. We do a lot of events wrapped around with the teams and our customers. We did one here in Chicago last Saturday night. So I own a handful of race cars myself. I race in the Radical Series right now. Wow, I'll be in the Ferrari Challenge Series next year, very cool. And then I do like to play golf as well and love the water, love being on boats and stuff. So we work hard and play hard is the way we say.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Exactly, and that racing situation can be very expensive, can't it? I mean, that's something you got to have a real stomach for.

Aaron Zeigler:

Yeah, it can. But we've also made a business out of it and so with BMW we have the motorsports franchise, so we sell the track specific BMW race cars. We do with Ferrari with their Ferrari challenge cars, so we're heavily involved in the racing side of it from a business standpoint, as well as supporting guys that race.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Yeah, that's fantastic. That's fantastic. So if your dad was here right now, what would he say about his son growing the company and running it to a couple of billion dollars a year and doing the job that you've done, which has just been outstanding?

Aaron Zeigler:

Yeah, you know, I think he'd say he's proud, and I think it's been a great relationship between the two of us. You know, there's hardly ever been a crossword between us. You know, 99.9% of the time we're on the exact same age, which is a lot of fun, because it's not always that way, sure, and families always that way, sure, um, in families we've got a, you know, I got a tight-knit relationship with my kids too, and, sure, they were all at the nascar race this weekend and they go to a lot of events that, um, that we host with, uh, with our customers and community. So it's really kind of a big family affair and it's been a lot of. Do you have any siblings? So I don't don't okay.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Yeah, that's great. So. So dad is uh uh very proud and uh wants you to just keep going, keep buying.

Aaron Zeigler:

Yeah, when we originally were buying stores he used to question it a little bit more and then it worked out pretty well, so he's kind of along for the ride.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Make the statement don't make me come back in there and go to work right, because I'm enjoying my retirement.

Aaron Zeigler:

Yeah, he's never said that, but you know he's. Like I said, he's still the chairman of the company. He's never said that but, like I said, he's still the chairman of the company. He's still somewhat active out there.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Sure, what are the things, if any, that keep you up at night? Either about your group or about the industry, or maybe the overall economy from a macro level.

Aaron Zeigler:

You know I actually sleep pretty well at night. I tell our employees do the right thing always, don't ever do anything unethical or illegal, because I want to go to night knowing that we're doing all the right things. Probably the biggest thing slowing the industry down right now is interest rates, and I think those are going to start to drop down. We've been a little slower than the other countries to be able to do that, but that will supercharge the industry because that goes into 90%. 95% of our customers buy a car based on their monthly payment. If that interest rate's higher, the monthly payment's a little bit higher, slows down the industry a little bit. So I think that's the number one thing that they could do right now. I think in the past it would have been going all EV because we knew that that would not work. It would crush the industry, it would result in millions of job losses. But now, as the rules have changed on that, we feel a lot more comfortable with the direction that we're going.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Do you feel good about the big, beautiful bill that's just been signed?

Aaron Zeigler:

You know, I think there's parts of it that everybody looks at that and goes how does it affect me? There's parts of it that you like and there's parts of it that you don't like, Exactly right.

Aaron Zeigler:

But overall we had to keep the tax cuts. We had to make them permanent. I'm a big fan of lower taxes. I think people can spend their money better than the government can and that will spur the economy going forward. And I think if you didn't get the tax cuts done, it would have slowed things up substantially more, because people are kind of used to that now, yeah, right. And because people are kind of used to that now right. And also it should be this huge tax increase out there that we've kind of avoided now. So I think that's going to be helpful to the business community, yeah no question about it.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Overall, feeling good about the industry for the second half of this year.

Aaron Zeigler:

Yeah, I think the industry is solid. I think it's going to be the second half of the year is going to be stronger than the first half of the year. We're seeing things slowly start to pick up, especially if we get some things that were headwinds, like interest rates, getting behind us, that become tailwinds going forward, and a lot of stuff is already behind us now, I believe. So I think the economy is pretty solid. As you said, the stock market's doing great. I think the industry is pretty solid right now. So we've also got a lot of pent-up demand from covid. You know there's 12 13 million units that didn't get sold. That's right, um, and I think a lot of these people are waiting for the rates to drop down a little bit. That's made, um, the average age of a car older than it's ever been before, and it's like 14 and a half years. Yeah, the offside to that is our service businesses is doing record month after record month it's been been incredible what we're doing from a service standpoint because people have kept their vehicles longer.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

That's right. It's good to be a car dealer right now, isn't it?

Aaron Zeigler:

Yeah, it's great. It's always good to be a car dealer. It's just a fun industry. You meet a lot of unique people you and I would have never met if it wasn't for the car industry, right. So it's a ton of fun.

Jim Fitzpatrick:

Aaron so much, really appreciate it. This has been fantastic. I know that our dealer viewing audience and managers will get a lot out of it. So thanks so much, appreciate you coming in, absolutely thanks.

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